Rabbi Daniel Weiner and Pastor Carey Anderson

Hello, and thank you for coming today.

Hey, how are you?

Very good.

Good, good. Hi, Lisa. How are you?

Hi, Danny. Good. How are you doing?

Good. I'm assuming someone confirmed with, uh, with the reverend.

I spoke to him over the phone.

Beautiful. Great great. Great. Great. Yeah. Listen, he's doing us a big favor. This is an incredibly busy time between Christmas, and they have a very special service on New Year's. And so it's been kind of a busy time.

We understand completely. So I want you to know that I am recording right now. I will be recording the video. If at any time you want me to stop recording, please let me know.

Hopefully, the conversation won't get that controversial.

And I will be leaving. I'm just saying hello. I'm just popping in to say hello. Happy New Year.

Happy New Year. And I like that this is not only wonderful for the archives or for the historical society and archives, but it would be a nice kind of lead into our annual celebration next weekend. Not this weekend. The next weekend.

Right? No, I look forward to that every year. It's fantastic. And, thanks to you as well for making yourself available. I know you're very busy too. Very, very busy, and Josh, thank you. So let's just hope that, if he doesn't show up shortly, I can call the office over there.

I have his number. If he doesn't come in the next two minutes, I'll call him.

Oh, there he is.

Yep. Great. Awesome.

Thank you very much for joining us, Pastor Anderson.

Well, hello. How's everyone? everybody?

Good. You're looking good. Not too much worse for the wear there, huh, my friend?

You're looking pretty good yourself, my friend.

I just want to say hi, Pastor Anderson. Um, Lisa Kranzler, I'm the executive director, and I've been to your services with both at the church and at the Temple for several years now. And I just appreciate you joining us and being willing to, you know, come on. I know this was short notice, and we appreciate you and all that you do. Both you and Rabbi Weiner are fantastic, in my opinion, and I'm just really saying hi. Thanks to Josh, here for conducting this interview. And we'll be looking at it later and editing it, but, very much appreciate. Happy New Year. And, I know that we also need your consent form and photo, and I think Joshua will remind you at the end, but it's very nice to see you. I look forward again to seeing you at the special services, both services. And I think you're both fantastic. So thank you so much on behalf of the Historical Society.

Well, Lisa, it's an honor to be with all of you today. And you're very kind. Thank you.

Absolutely. It's an honor, and so appreciative of what you're doing. Lisa and Josh. And of course, during a crazy time of year for my friend, the fact that he's taking some time to do this for recording for posterity, for the Jewish and the Seattle community, it's much appreciated. Thank you.

Okay, I'm going to say goodbye and good luck, and you'll do great. You're both naturals. Thank you.

Thank you for joining us. I am recording this interview. Just so you know, if at any time you want me to stop recording, just let me know. So, I guess, without further ado, let's begin. This is the Washington State Jewish Historical Society's interview with Pastor Harry Anderson and Daniel Wiener. And we very much appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedules to be interviewed. We want to start by talking about your interfaith work, the services that you share, and you switch off on. Um, so can you talk a little about that?

Well, if you don't mind, Danny, I'll start off there was an opportunity for Rabbi Wiener and me to come together. And in that, you know, I shared with him how much I admire what he does and what he continues to do in our community and how he is really noted as a premier leader, especially in the city of Seattle and more definitely in the Capitol Hill area. Our churches are right around the corner, really literally within walking distance. And, um, it was decided that, you know, let's get together when we can. Let's try and do something. Let's try and make a difference. Let's try to make an impact in the Capitol Hill area and show some solidarity and put our voices, collective voices together. And so we came up, with no better time than the Martin Luther King weekend, to celebrate an opportunity for our two congregations and the broader community to come together.

Yeah, I would know, absolutely. I would just add to that that, Temple in particular takes a great deal of pride in the fact that it has been like first A.M.E. It has been located on Capitol Hill for about 120 years, and while many other Jewish institutions and other institutions kind of left the Capitol Hill area or the Central District at certain periods in the last hundred years, Temple has remained firmly rooted there. And part of that is not just a physical structure. Part of it is truly wanting to be and having a major Jewish representation in the heart of the city. And part of that is not just the wonderful proximity of our buildings and our communities, but also the opportunity to forge bonds of friendship and fellowship and blessing, to get to know one another, to study together, to worship together, and then to take the values that accrue from those experiences. Instances and to go out and make our neighborhood, our city, potentially our nation, and our world better places. And so it's so important to me, to the congregation, and it's certainly a reflection of its history, that we forge a deep and abiding and genuine relationship with our neighbors, but in particular, especially in the Central District, Capitol Hill area, our neighborhoods from the historic African American community that has been rooted there for generations.

And, Josh, if I could just add one other element to what my Wiener has said, uh, it was the Reverend Doctor Samuel Berry McKinney. At the time, he was the pastor of Mount Zion. He invited his school and classmate, Dr. Martin Luther King, to Seattle, his only trip to Seattle. And it's my understanding that it was Temple de Hirsch that opened up its doors so that a platform for his speaking engagement could happen here in the city. And so there is a connection. There is a tie. And of course, when you think of Martin Luther King, it was more than black folk that were doing the marching. There were more than black folks who were doing the sit-ins. It was, um, an experience that was shared broadly ecumenically and interfaithly by interfaith groups as well. And so the Jewish community, um, was very prominent and stood and walked and knelt with Dr. Martin Luther King. That is something we should always hold dear. Interesting.

Can you think of any specific individuals who might have been there that we can interview about that Rabbi Weiner?

Yeah, I have to think about it. Unfortunately, many of them are gone. But there might be some folks who are younger. This was, I think, 1961, 1962. So we're talking a good 60 years ago. So let me do a little research.

Um, possible.

I'll have to find someone who was a teenager then. Probably. But it was a great source of pride to the congregation and to the city more broadly. I mean, you know, people tend to, um, when they you oftentimes overromanticize history. People sometimes forget that Dr. King, even though he is this almost deified icon in American history and culture. In his time, he was quite controversial in many, many institutions, even in Seattle. Didn't feel comfortable having him, and some of the criticism they might receive. And so, Dr. McKinney and Temple de Hirsch Sinai the fact that they went out on a limb and did that in its time; it seems in retrospect to be a no-brainer. But in its time, it was. It was somewhat controversial. I mean, those even in the early 60s, even here in Seattle, his ideals and his undaunted pursuit of of of racial and human justice, um, still fell on hardened hearts here in, in the Pacific Northwest and around the country.

You know, Josh, we wanted to make the weekend something more than just. Okay, we've done our two hours together, and goodbye. We wanted this to be something more meaningful and more interactive, as well as dynamic. And so the intention, I believe, that Rabbi Winer and I have is how we can walk together socially, politically, and in other streams that impact and, in effect, the people of our community who are hurting, extremely hurting. The power of coming together on the weekend of MLK's birthday is that some of the things that he stood for are still some of the issues that we face today. He was in Memphis for compensation, adequate compensation for a living wage for garbage. Garbage workers. You know, we're still fighting compensation. Adequate compensation for a living wage. The whole piece about before the operation, breadbasket, those types of things, he was talking about the Vietnam War and his stance against the Vietnam War and how the resources need to be redistributed, you know, so that we can take care of society's poorest and the weakest voices and the voices of the unheard. And so we come together at Temple de Hirsch Sinai and First A.M.E. to not only remember, but to reengage in the fire of our passion, to serve our community, and to speak for those that can't speak for themselves.

Well, so tell me, what sort of preparation do you do to make everyone feel comfortable at the mutual services?

Well, it's different this year than in the past.

No doubt everything is.

You can go. I come to the Friday night service, and Rabbi Weiner and his team come to our Sunday service. That is going to continue. But the platform has changed, of course, because, uh, he'll be virtual and I will be virtual. Matter of fact, I owe him my peace and my music by Friday. Mhm. Um, it's usually a little more organic than that. And that, um, you know, we're coming in real time. My group of musicians and singers comes in, and then I bring a word, and we fellowship after the service. What I enjoy about the service is that I learn more and more about the richness of the Jewish faith and the traditions, the songs. Rabbi teaches me songs. He teaches us songs when he comes on the first day of AME. because they sing them in Hebrew, they translate them into English. He says Hebrew prayers and translates them into English. And so it's an uplifting experience for both congregations. It is. It really is.

No, absolutely. I think, um, you know, obviously there's an incredible affinity with Pastor Anderson's community and particularly its worship style and its music, which is so critical in the black church in general. But it's been wonderful to see the specific kinds of sensibilities and styles that come out of the Episcopal Church in general. And first, AME particularly has such an incredible temple and a great deal of pride in its musical tradition. But you know, they have multiple choirs with multiple robes, and they have all sorts of certain styles. I mean, it is. It really is quite amazing. There is a level of pomp and a kind of excitement that really is. You don't sit still in a first AME service, that's for sure. Yeah. And if you're sitting still, you don't have a pulse. First Army service.

First Army loves the preaching of Rabbi Danny Winer. He's a preacher.

And that's high praise coming from a master here. Please.

They get jazzed when he's preaching. Yeah. Yeah. And the music. And the music.

All right, so let's talk about values. What values do you find consistent, and what values do you find different?

Well, I'm going to start off, Rabbi Wiener and I are going to do a joint session with our Church School class on the 17th. And it's going to be on the theology of free will. And so we're going to discuss it. We're going to talk about it. And we're going to say how it plays a part in today's world, whether it be the political climate that we're seeing right now, or what about the COVID-19, dispensation of the inoculations, you know, and who gets it? Who doesn't get it? Why do some people get it faster than others? Why? Why is there such a delay right now? I mean, is this God's free will? I mean, is this God's will? How does God's voice speak to us in our very traditions of the notion of free will and the theology of free will? So it's going to be a really rich and dynamic discussion. I believe that.

And I would just add kind of more broadly that that's a wonderful example of the ways in which, as Pastor Anderson was saying previously, we don't want this to just be a discussion where we kind of touch base here or what have you. That's really true, but we've already started to expand upon some of those experiences, and some of that's happening. I know some of our congregants, some of our communities have been talking to one another informally offline, and there are sewing circles and all sorts of other interesting stuff. But in addition to the class, we had started a year previous to have a Seder together at a not-unusual for synagogues to host, you know, seders that kind of embrace an interfaith ethos, particularly when it comes to the Exodus story of Passover. There is incredible strength and inspiration that both the Jewish community and the African-American community take from that metaphor of the Exodus and Christianity in general, but the black church in particular. And so we had a wonderful kind of shared Seder about a year and a half ago. We couldn't do it this year. We're hoping to do it in a post-COVID era and really to begin to spin off and do some more classes and other things together, and even to take a step back from that. One of the things that is that has been most edifying for me, and most inspiring for me, is particularly after this last summer with the George Floyd murder and the heightened focus and awareness and attention that was that was given to to systemic racism, um, that, that the connections that, uh, that our communities have, you know, didn't just kind of come out of a reaction to that moment that we have done we've started and will continue to grow and do the work of building a relationship so that when those tense moments occur, you know we can support one another. We can speak to one another out of a sense of relationship, not out of a sense of wanting to speak to the moment, but rather having created bonds over time, deep bonds, authentic bonds. That is, I think, a critical thing, not just in general, but particularly at potential flash points or inflection points in our country's history, specifically when it comes to incidents of anti-Semitism or racism.

Joshua, one of the things I'd like to say, um, in terms of Rabbi Weiner alluded to it, the sewing circles is a group that's interfaith, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, they come together to create and prepare sanitary kits for African girls in Cameroon. Because when a young girl is on her cycle, she's not able to go to school. She's prohibited from going to school. And so this group, primarily women, but there are men involved too, that help even in the setting up of the sewing, um, tables and all of those things. And the quilts bring those things in. They come together and we haven't done it with COVID-19 like it is, but they come together in a central spot, and they're creating these sanitary kits. And it's a way of how we as individuals, faith leaders, people of faith, no matter if you're Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. We come together because there are places where people need us, and we've learned how to walk together, which I believe is what creates a beloved community. And those are the things that knit us together, just as David and Jonathan were knit together. I believe that can be expanded to talk about those who are different than you. There are still ways that we can walk together when there's a human need that touches all of us, that we can create a difference and make a difference. And this is what that sewing circle is about.

All right, so, let's see here. Should we talk about next, how has the virus been changing the way that you work with your congregations?

He's got the.

You know, I mean, I think some of it is, you know, the obvious logistical things where, you know, since March, everything has gone on from worship to meetings to pastoral issues to education. And so you know, I think that out of necessity, you know, we've had to confront some significant obstacles at the very beginning, in particular, you know, it just seemed like it was going to be a pale substitute for being in person. It was just going to be doing something out of necessity, not out of desire. But one of the things that I think has come out of this, it's obviously we're we can't get back together, not only within our community, but within our communities. But one of the things that has been surprising from a lot of families, but ours in particular, is kind of the silver lining, unexpected connections that have been made. The two that come to mind, most specifically being able to see one another and to see a prayer, see musicians in this kind of intimate frame, where sometimes you'd be sitting way in the back of a sanctuary, you can see them. It's good to be a part of that, that experience person, but you don't get some of the nonverbal emotional cues, some of the intimacy that you get when you see someone in a much closer kind of perspective. And I think that's been incredibly connecting for people. And the other thing, quite frankly, is that we have had, um, a significant uptick in the numbers of people who are connecting to our services, both within our community, beyond our community, beyond Seattle, beyond even the country. I think one of the lasting legacies of COVID is going to be that there is going to be more investment in a hybrid experience. Yes, we'll go back to doing in-person what we've done, but we are definitely going to up our. We had an existing kind of streaming experience, but we're certainly going to up our game because I think there is a new kind of comfort and a new kind of meaning and authenticity of experience that comes from the online experience and allows us to connect with people beyond our walls in a more ongoing way. And so I think, um, whereas there are the classic ways that we've been constrained and are doing things because we have to, not because we want to. I think we've covered some new ways of connecting with one another that will be a positive lesson to take from the COVID experience.

And I think Rabbi Weiner is spot on on that whole dynamic. We, too, have experienced a broader audience since we've had to change the way we do church. And if I could use an Old Testament model and then a New Testament illustration to just kind of provide some foundation, you know, in the Old Testament, it was a moving tabernacle before the temple was built. It was a moving tabernacle. So they had to learn how to set it up and take it down as they migrated to the Promised Land until the temple was built in the New Testament. With the persecution of the church, the church had to go underground and still find ways to worship. And with COVID, it kind of tested the resiliency of the church or the faith community in general. The black church in particular. And so we had to find new ways, uh, to share an old message. The message hasn't changed, but the way we deliver it now is different. And so we too are like Temple de Hirsch have gone online and are really positive ways. I have more people now in my Bible studies than I've ever had before, you know, and our views on our worship services are more than the people that I would generally see on Sunday. And then we now have, um, partners outside or members outside of the Seattle, King County, Washington State area who tune in and sow into the ministry financially and support the work that we do, because all of our, a lot of our workshops and teaching time online now. And so people from across the country are tuning in and logging on. And even if they miss the real time, um, FaceTime, Facebook Production, they can look at it later because it's there, it's there. So we do YouTube as well. So it's been an exciting time. And as Danny has said, we're going to continue when we go back into the church, we're going to continue to do what we've been doing.

I'll give you credit for it, for sure, but I like that. I had never thought about the Mishkan, the tabernacle in the wilderness, and moving and setting as a wonderful kind of analogy for what we're doing. That's good, that's good. I wish I had a New Testament insight to share with you.

I love it, I love it. I just need to get our people to the point where they gave all they had to build the.

Yeah, exactly. All the tan ram skins and dolphin skins. Acacia wood. Yeah. We need more acacia wood. More lapis lazuli.

Talking about that, that passage of scripture where they're bringing their gold and their silver and all of those things, they gave what they had, you know, and they wanted their, their, their tabernacle to be the best. And that's what we.

And they gave it a willing heart. The Scripture says they did.

And so one of the things one of my members has shared with me about the whole COVID episode that we've experienced going on a year now, she said to me, This is our treasure. She said, You know, it seems to me that people are finally understanding what real worship and real faith should look like. All the other things that, you know, we get caught up in in church. That's not important. What's important is how we connect to God and our offerings. Actually went up. It has gone up since this whole piece, you know, and she attributes it to people really having to fine-tune what this is all about. What your faith and your relationship with God are all about.

I agree.

So, it's been a year filled with divisions, and there is a lot that unites us, but there's also a lot that divides us. What advice would you give to, um, the people in your congregation about how to heal those divisions between each other?

Now? Uh, what framework are you talking about?

Um, Um. Well, for instance, there's there's a lot of people who have doubts about the coming vaccines or believe in misinformation. It feels like there are two Americas, sometimes believing two radically different versions.

Of.

The Martin Luther King speech as well. The other America. But I think I understand what you're trying to get at. I think it has to do with learning how to respect one another. I had a person in my congregation, a very gifted pianist. She's our pianist, one of our pianists. She believed in the Trumpism thing, that this was all a hoax. And so she refused to wear a mask when we would come in for the services. I'm talking about the small, condensed, you know, where. It's just the essential personnel. When we do our taping. And so I had to let her know this is not about what you think. This is about the policy of the First AME church. If you're coming in here, then the mandate is you're masking up, and we're going to practice social distancing. And she was bringing a mother in who's 80-something years old, unmarried. And I was saying to her, you ought to have enough love and respect for those around you and including your mother, to observe these protocols to keep everybody safe. So she hasn't been playing for us since March. But, you know, you have to observe, you know, respect. And I think we need to be better listeners to one another.

I think, you know. Some of the realizations that have come out on COVID and the politicization of masks and everything else, you know, gets down to the root of kind of divisiveness within our country that's, you know, been percolating for at least the last 30, 40, or 50 years. And I think it's rooted particularly in the Trump era. It's rooted in the realization that facts and truth are not as compelling as the emotions that people feel. And if people feel humiliated, if people feel that they're not treated with dignity, if they feel hopeless, if they don't feel like they have any options world and they are susceptible to Extreme and diluted kind of misinformation and vision. And so I think two things need to happen to address the divisiveness in our country. One is the classic kind of thing that Patterson and I are doing, and that others are just being in a room with people with whom we agree and just getting to know people, even not even people you disagree with. It's just people you may not know from groups of people you've never had as friends. So, I think exposure and an openness to being able to talk to one another is an important and to speak to one and respect one another's views, even if you are vehemently opposed. And the other is understanding, you're speaking to somebody just listing a bunch of facts, which, yes, maybe God, God self, will come down and legitimate those facts. It's still not going to speak to people. It's still not going to convince them. What you need to do is to convince them that you're not necessarily right, but that you care about them, listen to them, that you're willing to afford them the kind of human dignity that all human beings deserve. And that it's not just about trying to persuade someone, it's about trying to really know and empathize with their pain and with who they are. And just doing that can go a long way toward people understanding and overcoming differences and converting together in a common cause with a common vision and a common purpose.

Well said. I would just say ditto. That's what it's about.

Good. Um. So let's see, what else have I been asked to talk about? Let's talk about antisemitism. Um, you've seen an increase in that this year or recently. And what, you think that, um, can be done to combat that?

And it's a call to action. Charlottesville was not an accident. With the sentiments that were being expressed matter-of-factly, Joe Biden said that's the one thing that Charlottesville experienced was what really inspired him to run for president in spite of the loss of his son, still grieving. He felt a call to action. When we see injustice anywhere, as Martin Luther King said, it's a threat to justice everywhere. And so it should call us to action to see groups of people just degraded and disrespected and golden unaffirmed in who they are. That's wrong. That's wrong for African Americans to be denied the opportunity to vote and denied the opportunity to live in places other than just redlined places where blacks are supposed to live. To be denied bank loans. To be denied employment opportunities. It's a call to action for those who are in power. It's a call to action to those who love justice and mercy, to stand up, speak up, and say something, and be the change you want to see.

I think, um, in addition to that, of course, um, you know, history has taught us and our current circumstances have borne this out as well, that anti-Semitism, in particular, racism or any kind of bigotry more generally increases when there are two key factors in a society, um, Incredible domestic strife and pressure and economic strife and insecurity when it comes to one's place in the world, one one's country's place in the world in terms of threats or what have you. And we've had kind of a perfect storm of all of those things. Certainly prior to, and throughout the Trump era, but in particular in the last year, when you have these kinds of incredible stressors within a society and outside of a society, it is going to drive people to their extreme, more base kinds of instincts and impulses. And oftentimes that is a primal fear of the other, a primal fear of something different. And in this country in particular, for Jews more broadly all over the world, for thousands of years, you know, our two communities have been the go-to others that have been the object of fear and derision when there are these kinds of pressures in society. And so what is the remedy? The remedy is to reduce some of those pressures. And I think again, going back to that classic kind of response is just providing opportunities for groups that don't know one another other than by stereotypical inferences for those communities to spend some time human to human together. And that is a way, I think, to, um, to dispel some of the ease with which a more depersonalized, distanced kind of bigotry can take root.

And how can we try to encourage those that don't want to know the other person based on, you know, their system of who's right, who's wrong, who's superior, who's inferior. Uh, that's a challenge. That's a challenge.

We got to get to the got to get to the youth in some ways. You know, the generation that's already here. You can try to do some work around the edges, but these are things especially to race in America. These are things that are in culturally and structurally that you almost need to start with a sort of child of a next generation and raise them to look at the world in a profoundly different way, rather than have to wait until their 30s, 40s and 50s and try to do damage control, to try to fix something that is so deeply ingrained in people.

Yeah.

So, how do you think that this generation of youth compares to previous ones, previous generations of youth? In terms of their attitudes, their approaches to.

Well one thing I see in the community, amongst young people in the Jewish community, is that they're coming back to the leadership. The previous generation that is now kind of in power. And they're saying, look, you taught us all these Jewish values about tikkun olam, about repairing the world. You taught us all these values that really are not, maybe are Judaism, but that have an application that goes universal, in Humanistically includes all of humanity. And so we're going to hold you to account for those values. If your institutions are not, excuse the expression, woke enough. If your institutions are not thinking about structural racism, for example, and are not addressing it in some significant ways internally, not just in the work that we do outside, but a lot of the work of addressing structural racism has to happen within white communities, talking to one another. It's not the job of the black community to teach the community about racism. It's about the white community having to have hard conversations amongst themselves and hard, hard reflection within themselves about how they have been, even subconsciously complicit in the creation of those structures and the perpetuation of those structures. And so I think it's critically important that we have hard conversations about these things. And I think that's going to be a key way to move forward. And in many ways, at least for the Jewish community, that's inspired by our young people who are, you know, coming back to us and saying, you taught us this whole basket of values. Now we are applying these values to the world around us and seeing where our leaders and our institutions are falling short of the standards and the ideals that we've set.

You know, it's interesting, I think, that the young people of today, I have a 21-year-old. We have a 21 year old granddaughter who just finished at Seattle U. And, um, one of the things in just listening to young people in the church and things like that, I think they're very intuitive, just as, uh, The youth of the 60s with the Black Power movement, with the free love movement on the other side, and with the US not wanting to go to war. And Dodge dodging the draft with the Vietnam peace. Very intuitive. Um, I think with the Black Lives movement that's going on right now and the crimes that are being perpetrated upon black men and young black men and black women by law enforcement. Um, I, I think now I could be wrong, but I think what our young people want to see is that we who are the adults, the mainstream adults, we need to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Black Lives Matter didn't start from people in my age group. It started from youth, young adults talking about, well, if you know, we are. A young group of people and people of worth, then why are we being shot down? Why are we being shot in our backs by police? And police are saying that their lives are being threatened. You know, we gotta we gotta find a balance here. Some middle ground. If you're going to walk the walk, you gotta. If you're going to talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. We haven't been doing it. I think, I think there are several of us who have sold out to money. Position power. And it's compromised our walk. Because though we say one thing, we're doing something totally different.

That was in many ways, the essence of Doctor King's letter from the Birmingham Jail to to the clergy, saying, you know, if you're going to if you're going to follow these, these, these, these values, you got to you got to follow them to where they lead, whether it's always comfortable for you or not.

Yeah. And also the emergence of black theology in the early 1970s. You know, because there was an indictment against white Christianity, because you're saying you love the Lord with all your heart and soul, your mind. But look what you're doing to the injustices of black people. So you're a hypocrite. That's the black theology. You know, so it's the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Nothing new under the sun.

Nothing new under the sun. The sages in Between Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. How do we change it? Maybe that's the larger question. You know, I think interactions like Rabbi, what you and I are doing and other faith groups are doing together that normally the world sees as diametrically opposed to one another, saying, no, we're not. We're united in the causes of social justice. We're united in the cause of equality for all. And, um, you know, civil rights for all.

Okay. Okay. So I think we're nearing the end of the interview. Um, but before we stop, uh, are there any other issues or matters that you'd like to discuss that haven't been mentioned yet?

Well, you didn't ask any questions about the political landscape right now.

Well, what do you what would you like to see the new administration focusing on?

Justice. Justice and, um. Parity, redistribution of wealth.

How would you like to see that go down? Redistribution.

Well, I think it has to come. First of all, an acknowledgment from those that 10% that have the power and the wealth to say, you know, this needs to be shared. And these are the steps that we're taking, in which we're going to begin the process of dismantling all the power with just this one group. I believe it was Christine Gregoire who just came out with something not too long ago about dismantling racism. Did you see it, Danny?

No, no, I haven't seen that.

Oh, it's a document that she prepared with her team, um, as it relates to Fortune 500 companies. Mhm. Intentional to dismantle racism within the workplace and really to bring more fluidity amongst people of color, black and brown people, into positions that can make a difference.

And I have a pretty modest hope. I just think this administration is going to have to do damage control. Basically, this administration's my highest hope for it is that it's going to dig us out of the hole economically, nationally, ideologically, racially, in every way that this administration has been such a threat and a curse on our democratic ideals. I mean, I think this administration can just bring us back to perhaps where we were. I mean, certainly, I want to go farther than where we were at the end of the Obama administration. But I think a good portion of this, this administration is going to be just trying to fix those things that Trump so significantly broke during his tenure. And perhaps it's going to be the next generation, the next generation of perhaps a leader of the Democratic Party, from a younger segment who will take that forward in a more idealistic way and pursue some of the larger ideals. Um, but I think damage control is the main thing. And my last word, kind of just in terms of what we're doing right here, is recognizing that this is really for posterity, that this recording is going to be a part of the Washington Jewish Historical Society's archives, that people may look back on 30 years from now, 50 years from now, the way they look back on fondly. Dr. King's speech. I think this is really a critical, a critical way station, a critical point in the relationship between the black community and the Jewish community, specifically here in Seattle. And I hope future generations will look at this and see how far we've come, but also the miles ahead that are yet to that are yet to yet to be traversed, and that they'll look at this as a point of reference for what to build upon and new directions to go in in the future.

And I'm hopeful that they'll make some strides. Maybe we won't be around to see it, but we will have played a part in some small way to make that happen. I would say this if we're going to dig out to get just to the level ground where we were, it's going to take four years just to get to the level ground. Exactly. And then there'll be election time again. So we'll have this, uh. It's amazing. I have never seen a political climate with such intense emotions in my life.

All right, Josh, you got what you need.

Yes, I do. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Thank you. Josh. Thank you, Carrie. So appreciate your time and effort. Look forward to our work over the next couple of weeks.

I need to get your, uh, Dropbox or Google.

Okay. I'll send it to you.

Okay. Thanks. All right. Take care.

Thank you.

Thanks. Bye bye.